The Evangelical Universalist Forum

SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

THE GRAND ASSERTION – Don Hicks

ALL OF MANKIND WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND ALL OF MANKIND WILL COME TO BELIEVE IN JESUS AS LORD AND GOD AS SAVIOR FOLLOWING THE NECESSARY DISCIPLINE OF THE CONSUMING PURIFYING FIRE OF GOD.

Mal 3:2b "For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap;”

SUB-ASSERTION #1

MANKIND WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST HAVING BEEN RECONCILED TO GOD BY HIS DEATH

Rom 5:6-10 “For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died
for the ungodly. But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while
we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, because we have
now been declared righteous by his blood, we will be saved through him from
God’s wrath. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God
through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled,
will we be saved by his life?

Note that a summary of these verses could be the following:
While we were helpless ungodly sinners who were His enemies, Christ died
for us, declared us righteous by his blood, will save us from God’s wrath,
and reconciled us to God through His death.

Helpless ungodly sinners who were enemies of God and Christ may be words
written to those of Rome who were currently believers, but here Paul is
obviously referencing their status with God prior to their becoming
believers. Therefore the being reconciled to God and declared righteous
occurred prior to belief since these descriptions are hardly of believers.

At the foot of the cross were many helpless ungodly sinners who were the
enemies of Jesus, yet He said, “Father forgive them for they don’t know
what they are doing”. I believe the Father was in agreement with this
prayer of Jesus and so their sins were or will be forgiven on the merits of
Jesus alone. Mankind was declared righteous, or justified on that day.
Paul reinforces the fact of being declared righteous was for all mankind a
few verses later in Rom 5:18, “Consequently, just as one offense resulted
in condemnation for everyone, so one act of righteousness results in
justification and life for everyone.”

SUB-ASSERTION #2

NO “PUNISHMENT”, “DESTRUCTION”, “PERISHING”, “LOSTNESS” IS ETERNAL; RATHER GOD’S “PUNISHMENTS” OR “DESTRUCTION” ARE CORRECTIVE IN NATURE

Now, we do need His discipline to make us fit for His kingdom. This
discipline will not be “eternal”, but it will be “aeonian or eonian”, the
English equivalents of the Greek “aionios”. “Aeonian” punishment as
referred to in Mt. 25:46, one of the proof texts for those who hold to the
heresy of the eternal torment of non-believers, is the type of correction
that God will administer to the unbeliever. The noun being modified by
aeonian is the word punishment, which is the Greek “kolasis” which has been
used in reference to “pruning” a plant for the purpose of better
production. “Kolasis” punishment is the corrective type, whereas, “timoria”
punishment is the retributive type. The “aeonian” life in Mt. 25:46 is the
life given to the believer by God beginning at the point of belief. This
is that life we enjoy as believers which blesses us now as we deal with
this physical life and also blesses us with the promise of immortality and
therefore everlasting communion with our Father.

Aeonian destruction as referenced in 2 Thess. 1:7-9, “…who will be punished
with aeonian destruction from the presence of the Lord,…”, is the kind of
destruction necessary for God to administer for the fulfillment of His
purposes. Destruction is equivalent to death in that it is “from the
presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power”. Jesus was
“destroyed” at the cross, but as in His case, so with all cases of
destruction or death, there is no sense of “eternal” associated with them
as Jesus rose to life and “the last enemy to be eliminated will be death”.

The “lost” sheep, coin, and son of Luke 15 referred to a condition that did
not last forever. The word “lost” is the translation of the Greek
“apollumi”, from which we have the translations lose, lost, perish,
destroy, etc. As we can see in Luke 15, the sheep, coin, and son were only
“lost” until they were found. This harmonizes with the fact that Jesus
said He came to “seek and save the lost”.

Note that the following verse tells us that there is a special benefit for
becoming a believer now, but that God will save all of the “lost”
unbelievers also. 1Tim 4:10 “For to this end we toil and strive, because
we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men,
especially of those who believe.” The Greek word that got translated
“especially” here is “malista”. Checking its usage in other verses makes
it clear that especially is a good choice for English since it does refer
to extra special attention to something, but not to the exclusion of other
items mentioned in the context.

The Hebrew word “olam” has as its Greek equivalents “aion” and “aionios” in
the Septuagint. An analysis of the approximately 440 occurrences of olam
in the Old Testament suggests that it means a period of time without the
end in sight but not necessarily “eternal”, or “everlasting” or “forever”,
if it should ever be. Olam was only 3 days in the case of Jonah’s duration
in the fish, even though the “traditional” translation has been “forever”.
Also, the length of time a person would be the slave has been referred to
as “forever”, which we know is literally only for their physical lifetime.
Some versions never use eternal, everlasting, or forever for olam. Have
you noticed some versions use the phrase “forever and ever”. Have you ever
given thought to the absurdity of adding the words “and ever” after you
have already said forever? What’s more than forever? That’s like saying
something lasts for an eternity and then for another eternity. The
absurdity of this should add to our awareness of the bias of those
translators who consistently translate olam, aion, and aionios as eternal,
everlasting, forever, or the absurd “forever and ever” phrase.

An analysis of the word “hell” is quite revealing. Jesus used the word
“geena” or “hades” and tradition (KJV, Catholic church, etc.) has had the
ignorant audacity to use this Anglo-Saxon word “hell”, which means
“unseen” (a-des), corresponding to the Hebrew “sheol” and attach to it a
meaning out of pagan mythology of a place of eternal torment. Dr. Thomas
Thayer in his book “The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless
Punishment” traces this myth of eternal torment that became associated with
the word hell to ancient Egypt. Geena (sometimes Gehenna) was the Valley
of Hinnom which became a garbage dump on the outskirts of Jerusalem where
carcasses of criminals were burned which Jesus metaphorically referenced as
a future potential punishment with no sense of “eternal” punishment
inherent in its meaning. This refers to aeonian punishment which again is
God’s corrective punishment. Gehenna should have been left untranslated
because it is a geographical location that the Jews of Jesus’ audience knew
exactly what he was referring to. Hades should have also been left
untranslated or translated as “unseen” or “the grave” as some versions do,
as Hades definitely has no inherent punishment connotation. There are a
number of versions that don’t use the word “hell” even once, realizing the
bad rap the word has gotten with the erroneous connotation.

SUB-ASSERTION #3

ALL HUMANITY WILL COME TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND WILL WORSHIP HIM SOONER OR LATER

The following are 5 witnesses (scriptures) from 4 of God’s servants: DAVID,
ISAIAH, PAUL, and JOHN.

NOTE: Nowhere in the Word do we have any evidence that one must come to
belief in this lifetime, which is another myth of man; contrariwise, we
have much evidence in the following verses and many others that some will
only come to belief after their physical death. At this point some might
think of the Rich Man and Lazarus parable, Matt. 13:34. Parables must be discerned
spiritually as they are not to be taken literally since they are fictional
stories to convey a spiritual message. Consider this, Rich Man = Jews and
Lazarus = Gentiles and the spiritual message is that the Jews will be
disciplined for their attitude toward and treatment of the Gentiles.

Keep in mind that belief is granted by God in His time not in man’s. God
grants belief to some in this lifetime and others after their physical
death. The myth that one must come to belief in this lifetime is something
man dreamed up or more than likely got from the pagans and added to his
traditions, but God’s word does not speak of it.

John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Phi 1:29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you
should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,”

THE MASTER PLAN OF THE MASTER COULD BE SUMMED UP IN A COMPREHENSIVE SUMMARY OF HIS WORD AS FOLLOWS AS ATTESTED BY MANY WITNESSES.

“ALL IS OUT OF ME AND ALL WILL COME BACK TO ME.” — GOD

Rom 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him
be glory forever. Amen.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will
also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that
God may be all in all.

GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL = GOD WILL BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE

OUR SPIRIT CAME OUT OF GOD AND WILL RETURN TO GOD

DAVID was inspired to write:

Psalms 22:27-28 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the
LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For
the kingdom is the LORD’s: and he is the governor among the nations

ISAIAH was inspired to write:

Isa 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in
righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance.’
Isa 45:24 "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and
strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against
him.

PAUL was inspired to write:

Phi 2:10-11 “…so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow
— in heaven and on earth and under the earth — and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

Rom 14:11 For it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee will
bow to me, and every tongue will give praise to God.”

JOHN was inspired to record:

Rev 5:13 “And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the
earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on
the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might
for the ages of the ages!”

SINCE AFTER A CERTAIN TIME DEATH WILL CEASE TO BE, LEAVING ONLY LIFE AND HENCE NO MORE SEPARATION BETWEEN GOD AND MAN, ALL OF THESE WITNESSES CAN TESTIFY TO THE SAME THING:

NOTE: The feeble attempt to downplay this worshipping, bowing, and
confessing as somehow “forced”, is born out of bias for eternal torment.
Note particularly in Phil. 2:11 the phrase “to the glory of God the
Father”. It is obviously not giving God glory to say Jesus is Lord without
meaning it and you might also recall what Paul said about saying that Jesus
is Lord, that “…no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit.”
(1 Cor. 12:3b)

EVERY CREATED BEING WILL SOME DAY PRAISE AND GLORIFY GOD

THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
“The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God’s declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.

While the ‘injury’ (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death.

EVENTUALLY EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED

Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it including all who were not in the Lamb’s book of Life.

“Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?

The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading “hath abolished” is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteenth chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term “resurrection” is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20 that the lake of fire is not the end of God’s plan for those cast into the fire. See also Ro. 5:18, 19
James Coram.

Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive

Sooner or later everyone will be saved.
A COMMON ARGUMENT ADDRESSED

Until the time of Augustine most Christians believed in the salvation of everyone.

Dr. Edwin Abbott, headmaster of the City of London School, wrote in his Cambridge Sermons -
QUOTE: “An argument was introduced by Augustine, and since his day incessantly repeated, that if aionios kolasis does not mean “endless punishment,” then there is no security for the believer that aionios zoe means “endless life,” and that he will enjoy the promise of endless happiness. But Matt. 25:46 shows the “eonian chastisement” and “eonian life” are of the same duration-lasting during the eons, and when the eons end, as Scripture states they will (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26), the time called “eonian” is past and the life called “eonian” is finished, but life continues beyond the eons, as Paul teaches at 1 Cor. 15:26: “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). That is, the last, the final one in order. How will it be destroyed? First Corinthians 15:22 gives the answer: “For as IN ADAM ALL are dying, even so IN CHRIST ALL shall be made alive. .” Death is destroyed when ALL have been made alive, IN CHRIST.”
– Dr. Edwin Abbott

Response to Joseph Prince

Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive
youtube.com/watch?v=fJkBMNlvmZ0

Also see saviourofall.org/Tracts/Allinadam.html

THE AGES COLLECTIVELY COME TO AN END WITH EVERYONE SAVED

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
“During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23).”

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

THE MANY

Some ask, Why does it say “the many” instead of “all” in Roman 5:19?

This is because the one disobedient man (Adam), and the One righteous Man (Christ) are put in a class by themselves. They are in contrast with “the many.”

We may put it as follows:
The one disobedient man plus “the many” equals all mankind made sinners.
The One obedient Man plus “the many” equals all mankind made righteous.

That “the one” plus “the many” made sinners includes all mankind no one will deny.

Even so, “the One” plus “the many” made righteous is all-inclusive and guarantees the salvation of all mankind.

The meaning of words that have been translated as “eternal”, “forever”, “incurable” in the scriptures

Sodom’s fiery judgment is “eternal” (Jude
7)–until–God “will restore the fortunes of Sodom”
Ez. 16:53-55).

Israel’s “affliction is incurable” (Jer.
30:12)-until–the Lord “will restore health” and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).

The sin of Samaria “is incurable” (Mic. 1:9)-until–
Lord “will restore … the fortunes of Samaria.” (Ez.
16:53).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord’s congregation “forever”-until–the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
“everlasting”, that is -until-- they “were shattered”
Hab. 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an “everlasting”
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superseded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon’s Temple “forever” (1 Kings
8:13), that is,–until the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an “everlasting covenant”
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was “done away” and “abolished” (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God “made the first old” (Hebrews 8:13).

God’s waves of wrath roll over Jonah
“forever”-until–the Lord delivers him from the large
fish’s belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);

Egypt and Elam will “rise no more” (Jer.
25:27)-until–the Lord will “restore the fortunes of
Egypt” (Ez. 29:14) and “restore the fortunes of Elam”
(Jer. 49:39).

“Moab is destroyed” (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until–the Lord
“will restore the fortunes of Moab” (Jer. 48:47).

Israel’s judgment lasts “forever”-until–the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).

So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until–
His church confiscates the “strong man’s” booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).

The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master “forever”
(Exodus 21:6), that is,–until–his death.

THE MILLENNIAL AGE
A snippet from THE MILLENNIAL AGE
We have seen that the Millennial age with all its glory is filled with judgment and with an iron rule; and that notwithstanding its unspeakable blessings and Israel’s preeminence, it is far from a perfect state. It can not be the final age. The final age must come with the New Heavens and the New Earth “wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

THE MILLENIAL AGE
tentmaker.org/books/is_hell_ … l_age.html

SOMETHING TO PONDER

THE NEW BIRTH CONTRASTED WITH THE NEW CREATION

concordant.org/expositions/human … -creation/

The “Offer” – Kenneth Larsen

Imagine this scenario. An automobile manufacturer builds a vehicle
model which it hopes will become a great success. During testing,
however, it becomes apparent that the car suffers from a severe design
flaw and would pose an imminent danger to the public were it released
for sale. Instead of correcting the flaw, the manufacturer decides it
has a better idea; it mentions the flaw on page 122 of the owner’s
manual and explains there how the owner can have the defect corrected
at the nearest dealership “free of charge”.

Does it appear rather lopsided that the vehicle is sold to
unsuspecting customers with little if any mention of the design
defect? Does it appear rather absurd that the responsibility for
discovering the dangerous defect and having it corrected falls upon
the buyer, when the builder could have fixed the problem before taking
the car to market?

Imagine this scenario. Because of the sin of our forefather, Adam, we
all inherit sin and mortality. None of us are tested as he was, in
order to see if we will be a righteous person or a sinner; we are all
given mortality. Our choices have nothing to do with our present
condition as sinners; we are born that way.
As for salvation from sin and death, that will depend on finding the
proper message and acting on it in an effective manner; otherwise the
condition we inherit at birth will be our everlasting downfall.

Does it appear rather lopsided that the condemnation is universal and
our choice has nothing to do with it, but our salvation from that
condemnation requires our active participation? Does it appear rather
absurd that the responsibility for obtaining salvation depends, in the
final analysis, upon each individual, while we are in no way
responsibe for our needing that salvation in the first place? Doesn’t
it seem strange that perdition is an inherited condition, while
salvation is only an “offer” made to those fortunate enough to stumble
upon it?

Fact is, salvation is not an offer we happen upon; it’s a gift. And a
Savior is One Who saves. In 1 Timothy 4:9-11, we read, “Faithful is
the saying and worthy of all welcome (for for this are we toiling and
being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour
of all mankind, especially of believers. These things be charging and
teaching.” God is the Savior of all mankind, for salvation is the
destiny of all. 1 Cor. 15:20-28; 1 Tim. 4:10; Jn. 12:32; Col. 1:20;
Eph. 1:10; Ro. 5:18, 19; Phil. 2:9-11. God is the Savior of believers
especially because He prefers some from the beginning for salvation
now and during the eons of the eons (2 Thes. 2:13; Rev. 20:4, 5).
Others are vessels of indignation, as indicated in Romans 9, and will
not be saved until the consummation mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:24.
Salvation is not an “offer”; God enlightens all, at the time He
chooses. John 1:9-13.

A snippet from THE PRESENCE – Walter Lanyon

Do you feel the’ Presence and understand what it is to recognize for a moment that nothing----no, not anything -----is to be destroyed, but everything is to be fulfilled with the Love of God which only has to be recognized to change the imagination and shatter the belief that held it into its outline of ugliness?

Formerly we went out to battle with the thing called evil ----now we have reduced it to the vacuum of belief in the absence of God. No matter how rampant it may be, and how destructive in its manifestation, or how terrible in its dimensions----it is in the final analysis the absence of God, and this absence of God can only exist in the imagination, for God is omnipresent.

“I come not to destroy but to fulfill” will thrill you and relieve you of all the hateful warfare with evil that has been going on------it will bring you to a true understanding of the non-resistance of the Christ Mind within you and make you understand the height and depth and majesty of this Presence.

It is wonderful-----it is glorious------it causes the Hosannas to rise from the very centre
of your being and magnify the Lord of Lords and Host of Hosts.

THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD

“This is, indeed, the Christ, the Savior of the world.” John 4:42

First, Christ died for all mankind. Under this proposition consider
the language recorded in the nineteenth chapter of the Gospel of Luke,
tenth verse:
“For the son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
John 4:34:—“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him
that sent me, and to finish his work.” Hebrews 2:9:—“He tasted death
for every man.”

Secondly, under this proposition, Jesus Christ was endowed and
possessed power to do everything that he undertook to do:
John 17:2:—“As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he
should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.” Matthew
28:18:—“And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, All power is given
unto me in heaven and in earth.”
Thus, he came to save all, has sufficient power to save all, and,
thirdly, he will succeed in saving all, which I demonstrate from
Isaiah 53:10-11:
“The pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of
the travail of his soul, and be SATISFIED.”
Now, …inasmuch as Jesus came to accomplish the salvation of the entire
human family, he never would be satisfied if he were defeated. If any
of you undertake an enterprise, and get beaten, you never can say you
are satisfied. Our Lord is to “see of the travail of his soul, and be
satisfied.” Inasmuch as he came for the purpose of accomplishing
universal redemption, it is demonstrated that he will succeed, because
he will ultimately be satisfied.
The apostle John says:—“The Father loveth the son, and hath given all
things into his hand.” In John 4:42:—“This is, indeed, the Christ, the
Savior of the world.”

  • JOHN WESLEY HANSON, 1879

THE SECOND DEATH

THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
“The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God’s declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.

While the ‘injury’ (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death.”

My collection of random thoughts on the human will.
There is some repetition for emphasis.

THERE IS NO “CHANCE” THAT WE CAN CHOOSE ANYTHING ELSE
Our choices are not made because we had a “chance” to make, or not to make them.

I think of myself as a theistic determinist. I believe that everything HAS to happen the way that it does, including all of our attempts to assist, or prevent it from happening.
Theologically this is called God’s decretive will, or that which MUST occur, in contrast to God’s preceptive will, which is what His creatures OUGHT to do, e.g. THE GOLDEN RULE, and choosing Jesus Christ.

The kind of fatalism that I reject is the kind that says that things happen no matter what we do.

The truth is that things happen because of what we do, even though what we choose to do is caused by the reasons why we want to choose a certain choice the MOST instead of a different choice at any give point in time.

A few seconds before, we might not have wanted it the MOST.
A few seconds later, we might not have wanted it the MOST.
It may even be true that most of the time we would have wanted to choose something else the MOST.
But at that point in time when we actually make a choice, it’s because we want it the MOST, and, at that point in time there is no “chance” that we could have chosen anything else.

As a theistic determinist I believe that nothing happens by “chance” and that God intends to eventually transform all evil and suffering into something better for everyone, than had it not occurred. That includes the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as kolasis aionion (age during corrective chastisement) that everyone who needs it will experience. Then, when the existence of evil and suffering has served God’s purpose, He will eradicate both of them from our existence.
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL by A.P. Adams is good on this subject!
thegloryrd.com/apadams/evil.html

As far as salvation is concerned I don’t believe it happens because we are given a “chance.”

As a universalist I believe the Bible teaches that the first fruits of election, the remnant chosen by grace out of each generation, will be saved first. Then all of the non-elect will be saved later.

The following two links are good on this subject.
REDEMPTION IN TWO PARTS
God’s Plan Of The Ages; The Purpose Of God In This Age; Redemption In Two Parts; As In Adam - So In Christ; Every Man In His Own Order; All Things In Subjection; God All In All
godfire.net/eby/allinall.html
and
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible with Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

The idea that it wouldn’t be “right” for God to hold us accountable if we cannot help but choose what we do is an ethical opinion that is rendered irrelevant by the fact that we always, without exception, choose what our reasonings tell us is the choice that we prefer the MOST at any given point in time.

The one thing we have in common with robots is causality.
Everything we do is the product of a cause, that cause being the reasons why we prefer one choice the MOST, instead of a different choice.

The fact that you chose it proves that you preferred it at least slightly more than some other choice, or you would not have chosen it.

Your reasons for choosing what you choose are the cause of your making any choice. It is not possible to make a different choice from what your combined reasonings motivate you to prefer the MOST at any point in time.

Nothing God does is “meaningless.” When we look back from the consummation of God’s plan for the ages of time, everyone will agree that it was better for everyone that everything happened the way that it did.

It is not even possible to choose any differently (after due deliberation or instantly) than the combined reasonings persuade us to prefer that choice the MOST at that particular moment in time, so much so that we actually do choose it.

In other words, the only “free” will we have is to choose what our combined reasonings persuade us in the choice that we prefer the MOST at that particular point in time. It is not even possible that any other choice could have been made than that one.

It is not even possible to not choose what that reason persuades us is the choice we want to make the MOST at any particular moment in time.

A man devises his ways by using all the info at his disposal.
The end result will be the only “way” he could have devised.
Considering all combined influences in devising that particular way, there simply was no other way that he could have devised at that particular point in time.
We will work out our salvation in response to the combined influences that cause us to work it out in a particular way, the only way that we could possibly work it out. No other way could even be possible.

We are individuals who always, without exception, choose what our combined reasonings persuade us is the choice that we prefer the MOST. The fact that we actually choose it proves that we prefer it the MOST.
No other choice is even possible.

The one thing we have in common with robots is causality.
In the case of humans the cause is the combined reasonings why we prefer one choice the MOST instead of a different one.

It is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer MOST.

The fact that we choose it proves that we preferred it MOST even though there may have been other influences that were almost just as strong. For example, try to believe differently than you do right now. You can’t can you? And you won’t be able to until/unless stronger influences CAUSE you to do so.

During the act of making a choice, it is not even possible to refuse to choose whatever is having the strongest combination of influences on our mind to choose. The REASONS that we choose “something” over “something else” are the CAUSES of our choice.

If we insist that our will is so “free” that it was not caused to choose, we are saying that there were no reasons that we chose what we chose. That would mean that we had to have chosen randomly (e.g. flipping a coin), i.e. not based on any reason, or combination of reasons.

In either case, a caused choice, or a random choice, could not have been prevented. The choice that was made was the only choice that could have been made at that point in time.

Our not wanting to reap the consequences becomes part of the reasoning process that causes us to choose to change our ways. The “not wanting” becomes so strong that it is no longer possible to choose to reap the consequences.

The combined influence of internal preference, i.e. finally deciding what we want MOST after due deliberation, or not, plus external persuasive considerations will CAUSE all choices to occur.

The exact same set of influences in the exact same situation (if that were even possible) would always produce the exact same choice in the exact same person at that particular point in time.

That is why it is not even possible to choose differently than we do at any given point in time.

The idea that it is wrong for God to hold us accountable for choices that we cannot help making is an ethical opinion that is rendered irrelevant by the fact that we always, without exception, choose what our reasonings tell us is what we want to choose the MOST.

Like I said before, I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

That is why I call myself a theistic determinist.

I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

I’m convinced that after we have thought the very best thoughts about God, we can be sure that He is even better than that because He is able to do above what we can even think, Ephesians 3:20. And IMHO I cannot think any higher thoughts than universal transformation.

I believe that after our resurrection from the dead God will eventually somehow transform every second of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened.

That includes both the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as what the Bible calls “kolasis aionion” which means age-during corrective chastisement that everyone who needs it will experience.

Scripturally or otherwise, it has, and always will be true, that we always, without exception, choose what our combined reasonings and feelings tell us is the choice that we prefer the MOST at any given point in time.

The fact that we choose some certain thing instead of something else, proves that we preferred that certain thing the MOST, even though we may try to claim that we really preferred something else the most.

I agree with Albert Einstein, who said, “I do not at all believe in human freedom in the [popular] philosophical sense. Everybody acts not only from external compulsion but also in accordance with inner necessity. A man’s actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that he cannot be responsible *, any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motion it undergoes."

Albert Einstein, IDEAS AND OPINIONS, pp.8,39; New York: Crown Publishers, 1954

Instead of God being a “gentleman,” I worship a God Who will, sooner or later, successfully influence the will of every fallen creature for their own good, so they will WANT what He wants for them, which does not include sustaining them alive in an inescapable state of everlasting suffering or annihilating them.

I call myself a theistic determinist because I believe in a God Who has decided that the fate of every fallen creature will be salvation from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

As Martin Zender puts it
“We all have wills, they are just not free.

Then why do we even exist, we might ask? Why do our wills exist? Is God playing chess with Himself? Why does He even need us? Why does He bother letting us think that we’re free?

I think it is in this perceived realm of freedom that we live and learn. God has given us the gift of NOT FEELING HIS CONTROL, and it is this gift that allows us to struggle with decisions, suffer for mistakes, and revel in the overcoming of obstacles.

It is this gift that allows us to turn to Him with tears both of sorrow and of joy.

I think the idea is to bring us in humble adoration to His feet. If it takes a sovereign God to assure that we come to this blessed place, then let’s let Him be sovereign—at the same time reveling in our perceived (but not actual) freedom.” (end quote)

I think that negative experiences work into us the motivation to choose differently in the future.

The apostle Paul’s frustration was that, regretfully, he sometimes preferred sinning. The fact that he actually chose sinning demonstrated that, at least momentarily, he preferred it, or he would not have chosen it. It is what we actually do that demonstrates our true preference. We can say we don’t prefer it, but our actions speak louder than words.

Sometimes Paul’s sinful nature was the strongest influence in his life.
Romans 7:14-25 makes it plain that in no way was Paul’s will “free.”

But the Spirit of God taught Paul through experiences that in those times that “the sin that dwelt within him” (v20) preferred sinning; he could then reach out to Jesus for rescue. This God-taught attitude gradually, and no doubt reflexively, became the strongest influence on Paul’s will in his war with his sinful nature.

I found it helpful what Ray Prinzing said.
“Don’t accept condemnation for not being able to “work out” what God has not yet worked into you.”

Without exception, every person comes to the point of actually choosing what the combination of their reasonings and feelings tell them they prefer the MOST. When that choice has been decided upon, it is impossible to avoid making that particular choice at that split second in time.

In other words, when it comes down to actually making a choice, either after due deliberation, or instantly, we will always choose what we have decided that we prefer the MOST.

Here’s the way that James Coram puts it.
"In any certain moment, either we have a given preference (and consequently effect a corresponding choice and action) or we do not. We cannot have a new preference while our old preference still exists. Nor can we make a new choice while we still have an old preference. For the act of choosing is merely the exercise of existing preference.”

The commitment of Jesus to do the will of His Father far outweighed His desire to escape the suffering He saw ahead of Him.

He definitely made the choice that He preferred the MOST.

In fact, that is the only choice that any of us can make, i.e. the choice that we prefer the MOST.

Everyone will ALWAYS choose what they both prefer and desire the MOST.

Here’s the way that James Coram puts it.
"In any certain moment, either we have a given preference (and consequently effect a corresponding choice and action) or we do not. We cannot have a new preference while our old preference still exists. Nor can we make a new choice while we still have an old preference. For the act of choosing is merely the exercise of existing preference.

Albert Einstein put it this way “I do not at all believe in human freedom in the [popular] philosophical sense. Everybody acts not only from external compulsion but also in accordance with inner necessity. A man’s actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that he cannot be responsible *, any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motion it undergoes."

My own quote.
“After due deliberation we always make the choice that our combined reasonings and feelings (i.e. preferences and desires) convince us is the choice that we prefer and desire the MOST.
The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we prefer and desire it the MOST, or we would have made some other choice instead.”

If we choose “the tough thing” it is ONLY because we prefer that choice.
Our reasonings and feelings combine to influence us to prefer that choice the MOST instead of a choice that is not as “tough.”

I’ll try putting it a different way.
Everything has to happen the way that it does, including all of our attempts to assist, or prevent it from happening.

What we prefer MOST, and what we determine is the best course of action from the information available are one and the same thing.

I find it completely relaxing to go through life believing that I am controlled by the strings in God’s loving hands!

We do share one thing in common with puppets, and that is causality.

Everything we do is the product of a cause.
And that cause is the combined reasonings and feelings that persuade us to prefer a certain choice the MOST instead of a different choice.

It is not even possible to choose what we do not prefer the MOST.

As a UR, I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

I believe that God’s determination, within the wise counsel of His DECRETIVE will which is that which MUST occur, to eventually rid all of creation from suffering, will in every case, overcome the strongest will that is temporarily opposed to God’s PRECEPTIVE will which is what His creatures OUGHT to do, e.g. THE GOLDEN RULE, and choosing Jesus Christ.

I believe the only mistake that I am probably making is in grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of his cross.

That is the kind of God that I see in the Bible.

POST SCRIPT:

Limited free will is an oxymoron - a contradiction in terms.

Limited means constrained.
Free means without constraint.

WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED? – KENNETH BRIX
“That salvation is of man and HIS works is shared by many of us who are Christians. We’ve portrayed God as having done all He could do to save mankind more than 2000 years ago. So now, supposedly, it’s up to mankind to perform the remaining essential of exercising the good work of faith, or else suffer everlasting consequences.

We have looked upon salvation as a joint effort between man and God, and as primarily what WE do for Him. With this teaching MAN is exalted, self righteousness flourishes, and God is stripped of His sovereignty! But our salvation ‘is not of him that willeth’ (any decision we make of ourselves), ‘nor of him that runneth’ (any effort we put forth of ourselves), BUT OF GOD Who showeth mercy! (Romans 9:16)

Christ was prophesied to take away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), so how then can a sinless world suffer everlasting punishment in the lake of fire?! How absurd! Christ is the Saviour of the world (Jn. 4:42; 1Jn. 4:14), and He will save it!"**

SOONER OR LATER GOD ALWAYS GETS WHAT HE WANTS
Information they probably won’t have you study in “ETERNAL PUNISHMENT” Bible schools.
Your teachers will probably declare the following information to be heresy, and they probably won’t have you study
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
“During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23).”

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

If you have been devastated by spiritual abuse this online book is for you.
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
richardwaynegarganta.com/4Vi … vation.htm

RESPONSES TO SUPPOSED SCRIPTURE ARGUMENTS AGAINST UNIVERSAL SALVATION
“Passages of Scripture Sometimes Quoted to Prove Endless Punishment
Shown to Teach Consequences of Limited Duration, showing that Christian universalism,
or ultimate reconciliation is the true Biblical doctrine.”
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr … ained.html

also see

THE SCHOLARS CORNER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSAL SALVATION
tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

RESPONSES TO PHILISOPHICAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST UNIVERSAL SALVATION

Good news of God’s love for all mankind - find it here at Tentmaker
tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html

Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches. I post on forums to give people an alternate point of view. Had I known that one existed I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 over my inability to love a god who would allow anyone actually prefer to suffer forever rather than eventually reach out for the salvation that God has provided. I’m 78 years old now.

THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT

The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve of
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY – G.T. Stevenson
tentmaker.org/books/time/

Also see THE SCHOLAR’S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM at
tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that is exactly what God is like.

ON THE BASIS OF HAVING STUDIED THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO YOU CHOOSE ONE
Choose to believe that the Bible teaches that God will sustain people alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering.
Or
Choose to believe that God will annihilate (cause them to cease to exist) anyone who does not become a Christian before they die.
Or
Choose to believe what the following expositors reveal about what the Bible teaches.
Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
tentmaker.org/articles/savio … /index.htm
godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
Or
If you have been devastated by spiritual abuse this online book is for you.
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
richardwaynegarganta.com/4Vi … vation.htm
tentmaker.org/books/Absolute … hrist.html
sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm (the author, Charles Slagle’s personal website containing many other good writings about the subject)

CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
christian-universalism.com/links.html
Or
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
christianuniversalist.org
Or
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr … ained.html
Or
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

I myself, along with many others with whom I am acquainted, simply cannot love a god who would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of eternal suffering (Arminian), or suffer forever just because they were born into the human race (Calvinist). Neither can we love a god who would snuff us out of existence just because we didn’t hear about Jesus before we died.

But we CAN love a God Who, because of His Son’s death and resurrection, through the power in the blood that He shed for us on His cross, will sooner or later save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved (including their stubborn wills). That’s the God that the above expositors see in the Bible. And that’s the God to Whom I joyously yield my heart in complete and total abandonment.